My first C2C

[cynthia23]

Ellen! You rock girl!!! I just did the tram on Saturday. On my way back down, at the lower tram station, I ran into my good buddy Steve (aka Osama), who told me about this amazing lady he had met at the peak, Ellen! He said, "Man, she was a real animal!" Osama is a legendary dude, and even he was impressed by your stamina in the face of blood and exhaustion! You did an amazing job Ellen, my warmest congratulations on your C2C. True grit.

btw: Steve is a wonderful, kind person who walked ME down on my first C2C (i was sick with stomach cramps and basically thought Iwasgunnadie.) He is the man you want around when things don't go as planned ...

And Ellen is the girl to go to when it absolutely, positively, has to get there ...

[Ellen]

Howdy Cy

Good grief, what an experience for your first C2C -- it's a brutal hike even without getting lost. Your fame as one of the legends of San Jacinto is well-deserved.

Based on my orienteering skills, I'd still be up on the mountain somewhere if I had tried a short cut on the way down

Howdy Magikwalt

Your humorous, self-deprecating posts always make me laugh I admire your tenacity, weight loss, and improved fitness.

Considering what you went through that day, I'm impressed that you made it to Wellman's divide.

I look forward to reading your first summit post. And yes, beer is a great incentive

Howdy Cynthia

I love your "Iwasgunnadie"

I enjoy your "wild woman" persona ("In wildness is the preservation of the world" -- Thoreau) and appreciate the encouragement and moral support you and others have provided to me on this forum.

How cool that Steve (Osama) helped you as well on your 1st C2C. He is truely a mythical character as well as a gentleman and I hope to meet him again. For starters, I have to hear the story behind his nickname...

Miles of smiles,
Ellen

[Perry]

It's a funny story. Cynthia knows all the details. I just heard it through her. I call him "Steve-O".

[marmot]

is it just me, or is the skyline trail extremely popular these days? It seems like there's always ten zillion ppl going up it now. maybe we should have never created such a forum

[Cy Kaicener]

Marmot - If there are zillions of people on the trail you started too late. Yesterday there were thirty people from the outdoorsclub. Next Saturday that group has another hike on c2c

[guest]

Marmot,
I agree, there are a lot! of people on the "trail" these days.
Too many people seem bent on making it some bonifide, GPS'ed, digitized trail these days.
Orange & white dots, trash, poop (yes, complete w/ toilet paper on trail), wimpy little short-cuts everywhere, signs, arrows, ducks.

Many folks think this is regular trail, but the Satate Park, nor BLM want it that way, or recognize it that way.
It's a route, and I for one, hope it remains that way, as the metal sign at 1800 ft. (which I helped create & install to reduce rescues) states, it's just a route that many people hike today.

People unprepared, not in sufficient condition, many w/out enough water, not knowing the trail before hiking, but hiking anyway & getting lost.

I know the creator of this board is attempting to help make the whole experience better for everybody (we've discussed it), but the "trail" and many yahoos are suffering from the popularity.

I hiked it for 15 yrs & way over 100 times, and it "ain't what it used to be" that's for sure!

ss

[AlanK]

Cactus to Clouds is certainly increasing in popularity. Some of that is undoubtedly due to the Internet, but some of it is due to publicity in national magazines and descriptions in several guidebooks. I have been doing C2C only since 2002, so I am a relative newcomer. Nevertheless, I have certainly observed the trends that people are talking about.

Most of the trail is not on State Park land, so it does not matter what the State Park wants. Whether or not any agency recognizes or maintains the trail, people are using it regularly. The guy who hiked it for the first time yesterday has the same right to it as the one who has done it hundreds of times.

C2C is a use trail. It is easy to navigate, with or without ducks, dots, or GPS. It gets easier to navigate all the time because it is a popular use trail. You can't wish it back into its pristine state. It is not a question of good or bad, it is just reality.

It is possible that some control could be put on the trial. Permits could be required in order to regulate/limit use. Meanwhile, people like Perry and those who use his message board (i.e., you and I) can try to make the hike a positive experience for people or we can lament the good old days. What we can't do is stop people from atempting the hike. This message boarc could go away, of course, but its passing would not make much of a dent in the traffic, which was growing long before this board appeared.

I don't like all of the new shortcuts, markings, etc. But don't pretend that the old timers kept it pristine. I have encountered several people who have hiked the trail over 100 times who were taking all sorts of shortcuts. While the orange dots are new, there have been spray-painted signs of dubious value for years, including the huge (and beloved by many) sign on the large boulder near the start.

Having said all ofthat, I do applaud the metal sign that "guest" helped create and install.

[zippetydude]

I'm very new to Skyline, so I have no business talking about this subject.

But, hey, that's never stopped me before!

Marmot - I agree that the trail can be busy on Saturdays. If you try it out on Sunday, or especially mid-week, it'll be very different. Sometimes I intentionally aim my hike to see lots of folks on a Saturday, because I like everyone I've met on the trail and like to see them out there. Also, it's comforting to know that if I have a nasty encounter with a rattler (read: I get bit) then there will be other human beings coming along shortly that would be able to help. Ellen even goes so far as to shoo them away for me before I get there!

On the other hand, when I'm feeling in need of solitude, I'll go mid-week and see absolutely no one. Think about going up the PCT from Snow Creek also, if you're looking for peace and solitude. Incidentally, on one of the kinda busy days, maybe you and I will have a chance to meet in person.

z

[AlanK]

z -- You certainly have as much right to talk about C2C as anyone! You don't have to be an old timer to be legit.

What "guest" has consistently complained about is ill-prepared and inconsiderate people flocking to try the hike, causing trouble for themselves and others. He has a solid point there! I tend to think that more information can only help, but not everyone agrees with that approach.

[cynthia23]

Both Guest and AlakK make good points. One thing that should be kept in mind, though, is that if we don't self-police the trail well enough, eventually, somebody else will. I have heard rumors--more than rumors--that the consistent problem of having to do dangerous rescues on this route has irritated/worried enough official people up at the park that they have/are seriously considered making this a permitted route (meaning, you have to have a permit to hike it, with significant fines if you disobey.) To some it may seem that I am a "worrywart" with my constant imprecations to would-be Skyliners to prepare, go slow, and be conservative, or that Guest (and I) are grumpy nags with our concerns about orange dots, abandoned gear, and GPS, but I think we are both motivated by realistic concerns. If a major fire starts due to a hiker or camper, or if there is one more serious injury or death, I think we could expect to see the route put under a permit process. Thus, I believe we have a motive to self-control: to urge newcomers to hike with others and to not just blithely give out trail information and a "see ya later-I hope." Some of us are ultra-fit, but others, perhaps most, are like me: ordinary hikers. And I'll tell you the truth--every time I do Skyline it scares me and I'm not altogether sure I'm going to make it. And in fact I have had two or three close calls. Skyline is a dangerous trail, and we do well to try and control access to it. And Skyline is a fragile trail, and we serve it best by trying to protect it from those who don't yet understand its fragility ...